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Apollo 11 Technical Crew Debriefing (U)
Crew debriefing where Aldrin describes seeing an unusual object of sizeable dimension about 1 day from the Moon; the crew observed it through a monocular and described it as L-shaped ('like an open suitcase').
Analysis
One day from the Moon, the Apollo 11 crew spotted something they couldn't identify. Through a monocular it looked L-shaped. Through the sextant, it became a cylinder, then two connected rings, then something Collins described as a "hollow cylinder" he could see "right down in its guts" when it turned end-on. Armstrong said it resembled "an open suitcase." Ground control reported the S-IVB booster stage was 6,000 miles away. No firm conclusion was reached on what the object was, how far away it was, or how large. Separately, Aldrin reported light flashes visible with his eyes closed -- about once per minute, sometimes as double flashes separated by a foot, suggesting something was passing through the spacecraft. Armstrong carefully counted approximately 50 in one hour. The crew guessed cosmic ray particles.
Key Findings
- Unidentified object observed approximately 1 day from Moon had "sizeable dimension" and appeared L-shaped through monocular
- Object's shape changed dramatically with different optical instruments and focus settings -- cylinder, two rings, open suitcase, open book, hollow cylinder
- S-IVB stage was reported 6,000 miles away, making it unlikely but not impossible
- Collins described it as a "hollow cylinder" that was tumbling, with ability to see "right down in its guts" when end-on
- No firm conclusion reached on object identity, size, or distance
- Repeated light flashes observed inside cabin with eyes closed, approximately once per minute
- Double flashes separated by about one foot suggested object penetration through spacecraft
- Armstrong observed approximately 50 such flashes in one hour of careful watching
- Crew hypothesized cosmic ray particles or neutrons visible in the spectrum
Page Extractions 11 pages
Page 1
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doc_typereport
classificationCONFIDENTIAL (marked as such on page)
page_descriptionTitle page of Apollo 11 Technical Crew Debriefing report dated July 31, 1969, prepared by NASA Mission Operations Branch.
dates1969-07-31 | Report publication date
organizations
- National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) | U.S. federal agency
- Mission Operations Branch | NASA division
- Flight Crew Support Division | NASA division
references
- Apollo 11 | Moon landing mission
- Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) | Referenced in notice
- NASA Policy Directive 1382.2 | Referenced in notice
assessmentsGROUP 4 classification with downgrading at 3-year intervals; declassified after 12 years | NASA classification authority
quotes
- "This material within these limitations: transmission prohibited by" | Document notice
- "NOTICE: This document may be exempt from public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552). Requests for its release to persons outside the U.S. Government should be handled under the provisions of NASA Policy Directive 1382.2." | Document notice
Page 2
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionTranscript of crew debriefing discussion between Collins, Armstrong, and Aldrin regarding preparation for lunar activity and an unusual observation.
people
- Collins | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Armstrong | Astronaut, referred to as "Mike" | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Aldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations"The first unusual thing that we saw I guess was 1 day out or something pretty close to the moon. It had a sizeable dimension to it, so we put the monocular on it." | Aldrin | Observation made approximately 1 day before lunar arrival
quotes
- "I think particularly when you get into the later flights of extended EVA's and lunar activity, somehow the crew must place themselves in a frame of mind of looking on the separation of the LM as the beginning of the flight plan and to relax, get plenty of sleep, and conserve their energies in all the events leading up to that point." | Collins
- "I think Mike's hit the nail on the head. We did precisely that. We got a lot of rest and got into lunar orbit eager to go to work and that's a particularly fortunate position to be in." | Armstrong
- "This is something we've talked about before the flight and I don't know how you can get yourself in that frame of mind but I think it is a frame of mind. You have to get yourself convinced that there will be a nice relaxing couple of days going to the moon." | Collins
- "The first unusual thing that we saw I guess was 1 day out or something pretty close to the moon. It had a sizeable dimension to it, so we put the monocular on it." | Aldrin
Page 3
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionContinued crew debriefing transcript discussing an L-shaped object observed in space, which the crew investigated through instruments and compared to the S-IVB rocket stage.
people
- Collins | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Aldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Armstrong | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations
- An object with a sizeable dimension observed at approximately 1 day out from the moon | Sighted by crew
- Object had an L-shape to it when viewed through monocular | Aldrin observation
- "a brighter object" moving past observed among various smaller objects and debris | Aldrin observation
- S-IVB stage reported to be 6000 miles away when object was observed | Ground control determination
- Object had "a very sizeable dimension" and was within crew's vicinity | Aldrin assessment
- "bit of an L shape to it" when examined through monocular | Aldrin description
organizations
- MESA | Apollo 11 equipment/system
- PTC | Passive Thermal Control mode or procedure | Apollo 11 operation context
assessments
- Object could not be identified as anything other than the S-IVB when first considered | Aldrin
- Felt "a bump or maybe I just imagined it" | Collins
- Armstrong wondered if MESA had come off | Armstrong
quotes
- "How'd we see this thing? Did we just look out the window and there it was?" | Collins
- "Yes, and we weren't sure but what it might be the S-IVB. We called the ground and were told the S-IVB was 6000 miles away. We had a problem with the high gain about this time, didn't we?" | Aldrin
- "There was something. We felt a bump or maybe I just imagined it." | Collins
- "He was wondering whether the MESA had come off." | Armstrong
- "I don't guess we felt anything." | Collins
- "Of course, we were seeing all sorts of little objects going by at the various dumps and then we happened to see this one brighter object going by. We couldn't think of anything else it could be other than the S-IVB. We looked at it through the monocular and it seemed to have a bit of an L shape to it." | Aldrin
- "Like an open suitcase." | Armstrong
- "We were in PTC at the time so each one of us had a chance to take a look at this and it certainly seemed to be within our vicinity and of a very sizeable dimension." | Aldrin
Page 4
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionContinued crew debriefing discussing detailed observations of the mysterious object and its varying appearance through different optical instruments and focus settings.
people
- Armstrong | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Aldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Collins | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations
- Object appeared to be at the limit of eye resolution with very difficult shape determination | Armstrong observation
- Object appeared as a cylinder when viewed through LEB optics with sextant off-focus | Aldrin observation
- Object appeared as two connected rings when viewed with different focus | Armstrong observation
- Object appeared as a hollow cylinder that was tumbling, could be viewed down its axis when end-on | Collins observation
- When focus was changed on sextant, object appeared as an open-book shape | Collins observation
- Without knowing range or size, size determination was impossible | Armstrong assessment
organizations
- LEB | Lunar Excursion Module or spacecraft component | Apollo 11
- LEV | Lunar Excursion Module optics system | Apollo 11
assessments
- Object was at the limit of eye resolution, very difficult to determine exact shape | Armstrong
- Crew was "grossly mislead" by sextant optical properties causing appearance of cylinder | Aldrin
- Object appearance changed dramatically with optical focus adjustment | Collins observation
- Object identification remained inconclusive | Aldrin
quotes
- "We should say that it was right at the limit of the resolution of the eye. It was very difficult to tell just what shape it was. And there was no way to tell the size without knowing the range or the range without knowing the size." | Armstrong
- "So then I got down in the LEB and started looking for it in the optics. We were grossly mislead because with the sextant off focus what we saw appeared to be a cylinder." | Aldrin
- "Or really two rings." | Armstrong
- "Yes." | Aldrin
- "Two rings. Two connected rings." | Armstrong
- "No, it looked like a hollow cylinder to me. It didn't look like two connected rings. You could see this thing tumbling and, when it came around end-on, you could look right down in its guts. It was a hollow cylinder. But then you could change the focus on the sextant and it would be replaced by this open-book shape. It was really weird." | Collins
- "I guess there's not too much more to say about it other than it wasn't a cylinder." | Aldrin
Page 5
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionCrew debriefing discussing various hypotheses for the mysterious object and comparison with spacecraft debris and equipment.
people
- Collins | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Aldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations
- Object was viewed once during a specific time period | Collins
- Object was not part of the urine dump | Collins assessment
- Pieces came off the LM during jettisoning of docking rings | Collins observation
- Possible Mylar or other material that came loose from LM | Collins speculation
- Object did not appear to have a panel shape | Aldrin observation
- Coincidence with high gain antenna problems | Collins note
assessments
- Crew almost convinced object was S-IVB initially | Collins
- No firm conclusion as to what object was, its size, or distance | Collins
- Object was not part of urine dump | Collins confidence
- Object origin was likely from the spacecraft | Collins assessment
- Object could not be identified with certainty | Aldrin/Collins
organizations
- LM | Lunar Module | Apollo 11 spacecraft component
- S-IVB | Third stage of Saturn V rocket | Apollo 11 mission element
quotes
- "It was during the period when we thought it was a cylinder that we inquired about the S-IVB and we'd almost convinced ourselves that's what it had to be. But we don't have any more conclusions than that really. The fact that we didn't see it much past this one time period — we really don't have a conclusion as to what it might have been, how big it was, or how far away it was. It was something that wasn't part of the urine dump, we're pretty sure of that." | Collins
- "Skipping ahead a bit, when we jettisoned the LM, you know we fired an explosive charge and got rid of the docking rings and the LM went boom. Pieces came off the LM. It could have been some Mylar or something that had somehow come loose from the LM." | Collins
- "We thought it could have been a panel, but it didn't appear to have that shape at all." | Aldrin
- "That's right, and for some reason, we thought it might have been a part of the high gain antenna. It might have been about the time we had high gain antenna problems. In the back of my mind, I have some reason to suspect that its origin was from the spacecraft." | Collins
Page 6
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionAldrin's account of additional observations of unexplained light flashes inside the spacecraft cabin, including double flashes and a linear pattern with no apparent motion.
peopleAldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations
- Observation of little flashes inside the cabin, spaced a couple of minutes apart | Aldrin, second night
- Could not explain why eye would see these flashes | Aldrin assessment
- During transearth coast, observed double flashes separated by approximately one foot | Aldrin observation
- Observed a line with no direction of motion | Aldrin observation
- Double flashes appeared to have entry and impact on internal structures like struts | Aldrin observation
assessments
- Flashes appeared to be some sort of penetration of an object into the spacecraft | Aldrin speculation
- Object penetration causes emission as it enters the cabin | Aldrin hypothesis
- One flash appeared on entering, possibly another departing from different part of cabin | Aldrin observation
- Double flashes appeared to impact internal structure | Aldrin observation
quotes
- "The other observation that I made accumulated gradually. I don't know whether I saw it the first night, but I'm sure I saw it the second night. I was trying to go to sleep with all the lights out. I observed what I thought were little flashes inside the cabin, spaced a couple of minutes apart and I didn't think too much about it other than just note in my mind that they continued to be there. I couldn't explain why my eye would see these flashes." | Aldrin
- "During transearth coast, we had more time and I devoted more opportunity to investigating what this could have been. It was at that point that I was able to observe on two different occasions that, instead of observing just one flash, I could see double flashes, at points separated by maybe a foot. At other times, I could see a line with no direction of motion and the only thing that comes to my mind is that this is some sort of penetration. At least that's my guess, without much to support it; some penetration of some object into the spacecraft that causes an emission as it enters the cabin itself. Sometimes it was one flash on entering. Possibly departing from an entirely different part of the cabin, outside the field of view. The double flashes appeared to have an entry and then impact on something such as the struts. For a while, I thought it might have been" | Aldrin
Page 7
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionContinuation of discussion regarding light flashes and their origin, with attempts to correlate observations with sun direction and static electricity.
people
- Aldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker (CONT'D)
- Armstrong | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations
- Could generate small sparks of static electricity by moving hand up and down on sleep restraint | Aldrin observation
- Definite difference between static electricity sparks and observed flashes | Aldrin observation
- Flashes appeared to come from general direction of sun with some leakage through window shades | Aldrin observation
- Direction of sun could be determined within 20 or 30 degrees even with window shades | Aldrin assessment
- Evidence supported observations being on spacecraft side where sun was | Aldrin observation
- Armstrong observed some light but attributed it to sunlight and window cover leakage | Armstrong observation
- Approximately 50 significant observations made during period of careful observation | Armstrong observation
assessments
- Flashes appeared to originate from sun's general direction but insufficient evidence to confirm conclusively | Aldrin assessment
- Sparks from static electricity differed noticeably from observed flashes | Aldrin observation
- Other crew members initially had not seen the flashes until last day | Aldrin note
quotes
- "some static electricity because I was also able, in moving my hand up and down the sleep restraint, to generate very small sparks of static electricity. But there was a definite difference between the two as I observed it more and more. I tried to correlate this with the direction of the sun. When you put the window shades up there is still a small amount of leakage. You can generally tell within 20 or 30 degrees the direction of the sun. It seemed as though they were coming from that general direction; however, I really couldn't say if there was near enough evidence to support that these things were observable on the side of the spacecraft where the sun was. A little bit of evidence seemed to support this. I asked the others if they had seen any of these and, until about the last day, they hadn't." | Aldrin
- "Buzz, I'd seen some light, but I just always attributed this to sunlight, because the window covers leak a little bit of light no matter how tightly secured. The only time I observed it was the last night when we really looked for it. I spent probably an hour carefully watching the inside of the spacecraft and I probably made 50 significant observations in this period." | Armstrong
Page 8
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionCrew discussion of frequency and timing of light observations, with hypothesis that they may be atomic particles visible in the spectrum.
people
- Aldrin | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
- Armstrong | Astronaut | Apollo 11 | speaker
observations
- Sometimes a minute or two would pass between observations, then two would occur within 10 seconds | Aldrin observation
- Pattern suggested approximately one observation per minute average | Aldrin estimate
assessments
- Frequency and pattern ruled out optical illusion | Aldrin assessment
- Phenomenon gave "rather funny feeling" when contemplating something zapping through cabin | Aldrin observation
- Could be neutron or atomic particle in visible spectrum | Armstrong hypothesis
quotes
- "Sometimes a minute or two would go by and then you'd see the two within the space of 10 seconds. On an average, I'd say just as a guess it was maybe something like one a minute. Certainly more than enough to convince you that it wasn't an optical illusion. It did give you a rather funny feeling to contemplate that something was zapping through the cabin. There wasn't anything you could do about it." | Aldrin
- "It could be something like Buzz suggested. Mainly a neutron or some kind of an atomic particle that would be in the visible spectrum." | Armstrong
Page 9
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doc_typereport
classificationCONFIDENTIAL (marked as such on page)
page_descriptionTitle page for Volume II of Apollo 11 Technical Crew Debriefing report dated July 31, 1969, prepared by NASA Mission Operations Branch.
dates1969-07-31 | Report publication date
organizations
- National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) | U.S. federal agency
- Mission Operations Branch | NASA division
- Flight Crew Support Division | NASA division
references
- Apollo 11 | Moon landing mission
- Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) | Referenced in notice
- NASA Policy Directive 1382.2 | Referenced in notice
assessmentsGROUP 4 classification with downgrading at 3-year intervals; declassified after 12 years | NASA classification authority
quotes"NOTICE: This document may be exempt from public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552). Requests for its release to persons outside the U.S. Government should be handled under the provisions of NASA Policy Directive 1382.2." | Document notice
Page 10
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionApollo 11 crew debriefing transcript discussing visual sightings during translunar and transearth flight and lunar orbit phases.
people
- Armstrong | astronaut/crew member | NASA | speaker/witness
- Aldrin | astronaut/crew member | NASA | speaker/witness
observations
- Section 21.0 on Visual Sightings; most items previously reported
- Section 21.4 Translunar and Transearth Flight: Only one minor observation returning from the Moon; looking back at the Moon after Mars had passed behind the Moon, there was one time period where Aldrin imagined that the image of Mars was coming from a region where it couldn't come from, because it was in a dark portion of the Moon; described as an optical illusion of some sort
- Section 21.5 Lunar Orbit: In lunar orbit following ascent, when approaching Command and Service Module (CDH) and Earth came up above the lunar horizon, Aldrin observed what appeared to be a fairly bright light source which was tentatively ascribed to something (text cuts off)
assessments
- The Mars image observation was determined to be an optical illusion | Armstrong/Aldrin
- The bright light source in lunar orbit was "fairly bright" | Aldrin
- Most items in Visual Sightings section previously reported | Armstrong
quotes
- "Most of the items in Section 21, Visual Sightings, have been previously reported." | Armstrong
- "There was only one minor observation returning from the Moon. Looking back at it, at a time after Mars had passed behind the Moon, there was one time period where I imagined that the image of Mars was coming from a region where it couldn't come from, because it was in a dark portion of the Moon. This obviously was an optical illusion of some sort." | Aldrin
- "I suspect that it was, in fact, just immediately adjacent to the horizon." | Armstrong
- "We must have looked at it immediately after it had come from the back side." | Aldrin
- "Yes." | Armstrong
- "In lunar orbit, following ascent, we did note and mention to the ground that approaching CDH when the Earth came up above the lunar horizon, I observed what appeared to be a fairly bright light source which we tentatively ascribed" | Aldrin (text incomplete on page)
references
- Section 21.0 Visual Sightings
- Section 21.4 Translunar and Transearth Flight
- Section 21.5 Lunar Orbit
- Mars | celestial body observed
- Moon | celestial body referenced
- Earth | celestial body referenced
Page 11
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doc_typetranscript
classificationCONFIDENTIAL
page_descriptionContinuation of Aldrin's explanation of the light source observation, discussing possible laser reflection and water reflection hypotheses.
peopleAldrin | astronaut/crew member | NASA | speaker/witness
observationsLight source appeared to be coming from Earth region; when examining with monocular, appeared as though it was the reflection of the Sun from a relatively smooth body of water such as a lake; revised initial conclusion that the source of light was coming from Earth; if no one owns up to having beamed a laser toward the Moon at that time, it was more probably a reflection off a lake; still considered an unusual phenomenon at that distance to see so bright a source of light; in film, it didn't appear as though this was going to show up at all; Earth was too bright
assessments
- Best possible explanation was a possible laser, at least initially | Aldrin
- Revised assessment: more probably a reflection off a lake | Aldrin
- Phenomenon was unusual for that distance | Aldrin
- Light source appeared in observation but not in film | Aldrin
quotes"to a possible laser. That seemed to be the best possible explanation until we were coming back in the command module approaching the Earth and were able to observe something that gave about the same appearance. When putting the monocular on the light source, it appeared as though it was the reflection of the Sun from a relatively smooth body of water such as a lake. I think we've revised our initial conclusion as to what the source of that light was that we saw coming from the Earth. If no one owns up to having beamed the laser toward the Moon at that time, it was more probably a reflection off a lake. I still think it's an unusual phenomenon, at that distance, to see so bright a source of light. In the film, it didn't appear as though this was going to show up at all. The Earth was too bright." | Aldrin
references
- Command module | spacecraft context
- Earth | celestial body referenced
- Moon | celestial body referenced
- Sun | light source referenced